This post was originally a small rant on my old blog about how some farang are so easily scammed by bad Thai ladies, in particular the ladies who hide previous marriages from their fiances. I started off ranting about how I should write a book about all the little tricks used by the scammers.
I’m talking about a guide for men who are dating a regular Thai girl, or at least think they are, with some practical information on how to check her out better. I’m thinking of this because of all the dumb situations I see when I do translations for people, like when I translate documents for a fiancee visa. The lady provides all her biographical info for the visa application forms plus her Id card, house registration, birth certificate, sometimes so other documents like letters and statements to support the fact that the couple has a real relationship. Anything that is in Thai has to be translated to English.
So in one case that is probably a little bit too common I get the application form completed in Thai. Where it asks for prior marriages the lady says none. Then I look at her Id card and it’s obvious she was married before. That’s because the title before her name is nang which means “Mrs.” If she had never been married it would be nang sao which means “Miss”. It used to be that the title of nang was kept even if the lady got divorced and reverted to her maiden name, but that law was changed a couple years ago so women can now get back the nang sao title. Anway, in this case I then look at some of the letters the couple wrote to each other, letters they will use to prove the existence of a long term relationship. And in the letters the lady says she was never married.
Here is what it looks like on the Id card:
I just want to scream at the guy and tell him to check out this girl. If he only knew what to look for he could take a quick peek at her Id card and he would know she is hiding something. She might actually still be married. Of course this will come to light when the embassy gets the visa application packet and sees the discrepancy. But by then the man has invested a lot of time, money and emotion in something that is probably a fraud.
So one of the chapters in my book would be about the Thai Id card and what to look for. That would be some useful practical information for a lot of guys, although after the change in the law the smart scammers who aren’t lazy will get it changed back so you would never know if the lady was married before. At least you would know that she is not currently married – plenty of those cases around.
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July 12th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
You should consider an ebook about dating Thai women. Seriously. Hard work, but I think you’d enjoy it.
July 12th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Hard work, and I’m not so sure it would sell because there are already a bunch of those kind of ebooks on sale. Many seem to have little useful information or contain a lot of nonsense and stereotypes. I think if I was going to do it I would make it something different, not a dating guide, but more of a reference on different subjects, things like this post (the ID card), profiles of different types of girls (“The Tour Guide” for example), true stories (like that video I posted but real stories from the letters I have translated), stuff like that.
Hmm, hard work and I think not worth my time to do it.
July 13th, 2010 at 2:03 am
July 13th, 2010 at 1:57 am
Yes, there are great pitfalls for the unwary. I did find a chart on Thai women and the expectations of class.
There is a good chart on Thai women
http://thaiwomantalks.com/category/thai-women/
The question I think most western men would want to know if one chooses a Thai woman of education and social status is she to be expected to be a prude or “ice Queen”? For sex would that mean a mistress?
July 13th, 2010 at 8:07 am
Yes, we had a lot of discussion about that chart in my post Recommended reading for my readers
July 18th, 2010 at 8:35 am
I for one would like to know more about the “tour guide” routine. Reason being that my Thai girlfriend works at hotel in Pattaya and routinely gives visiting farangs at the hotel tours or the local gardens or to Koh Lan. I asked her what on Earth she could show a man on Koh Lan (no smart aleck replies to that, please) since to my knowledge it was not a volcanic island nor does it have any animal species that are particularly interesting–just better beaches than the polluted waters in Pattaya. I know she gets tips from the men she takes–but would appreciate learning more of how this scheme is applied. I concur with some of the other responders, an e-book IS in order.
July 18th, 2010 at 9:08 am
I don’t know about your particular situation but my profile guide would be about another kind of tour guide, not one who works in Pattaya who would normally be assumed to be in “that” business anyway so you wouldn’t need my guide. Again, I don’t know your situation so don’t take offense but that is the usual assumption.
There are a bunch of cover stories used by girls who seem like regular girls with regular jobs but who are really mia noi which is basically a paid mistress. It’s not such a direct system as a bar girl where the man meets her in the bar and pays her to go have sex. Mia noi normally have their expenses paid (apartment, bills, spending money, gifts) and just wait around for their “supporter” to come visit them for dates and sex. There are various arrangements but that is basics.
I should add that there is another less common type of mia noi who actually joins the mans family and lives along with mia luang (the main wife), maybe even has kids and they all stay together. That’s not so common anymore but I do know a man like that who has three wives all living together. It seem sort of odd to me but the wives all describe him as jai dee and said he just wanted to help the poor ladies who became his mia noi.
Anyway, I’m not talking about that arrangement. The normal mia noi needs a cover story for friends and family because being a mia noi has a similar stigma as any other prostitute type job. There are several cover stories that they use and tour guide is one of them because it is easy to say that they will be unavailable for days at a time while they travel around as a tour guide. The truth is that they are entertaining their supporter during that time. They might actually be traveling together so it is easy to make it seem legit.
So what if you are a farang engaged to a Thai girl who seems in every way like a regular girl, and she is gone for days at a time working as a tour guide, how would you know if she is actually having sex for money with a supporter? How do you figure out if she is really somebody’s mia noi? It’s not so easy. My idea for a chapter in my book (which I might never write) is to describe a few of these “profiles” based on real cases I have seen. Readers could compare to their own situation and look for the small clues that it all might be a cover story for a mia noi.
That’s my big idea. Maybe someday.
July 18th, 2010 at 10:59 am
I am new to this site so don’t know much about it, but are you a private detective, or just someone that knows a LOT about Thailand and Thai women? FWIW, if you own a “smart” phone these days, such as an I-phone, there are apps you can buy that will track the location of any cell number in the world. Not all of these apps are great ones but if you can find one that works, it would be a valuable tool in determining the movement of your lady, particularly if she has brought along her cell phone to text you or call you when her “customer” is away. I realize this would only be helpful if your lady claims to be in one place but is actually in another, etc., but it makes it easy to track her movements from place-to-place.
BTW, if you have any suggestions for other ways to check girls’ stories out, I would welcome hearing them, either on here or via private email. One thing that my girlfriend does on a fairly consistent basis is that she will alter shifts, change days off, tell me she is visiting a “friend” in some unidentified city, or give me very sketchy information like “My friend will pick me up in Rangsit” but she will not say what the final destination is. My question about this is whether this is just a “Thai” thing or is she sending out red flags by the score? Reason I ask is that I have spent quite a bit of time with her in Thailand and while her work schedule stays fairly stable, our plans can change in a heartbeat and suddenly we are doing something completely different from what was originally planned–which gives me the idea that this is a common Thai thing–i.e., not to have or to adhere to fixed plans. Your take on this? If it is a “Thai” thing then it also makes for a convenient excuse to see a “gig” or meet yet another new farang.
Lastly, any thoughts on using technology, other than a mobile tracker, to learn more of a Thai girl’s activity?
July 18th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
I’m not a PI although I did do some investigations a couple years ago. Stopped doing it after it got a little weird and scary. Most of what I know about Thai women is from being one, hehe. But all the trashy and tricky scams I learned from doing translations and reading all the details – so many happening all the time. Also when I was doing matchmaking I caught a few of the ladies trying some rather sly scams.
About changing plans and missing appointments, yes, that is very common. I think foreigners even have a name for it. They call it “Thai time”. But many times that just becomes another easy cover story.
I don’t know about trying to track your lady. She will just “forget” her phone at home when she doesn’t want to be tracked. I bet she has more than one phone and more than one SIM.
July 18th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
An e-book about dating Thai women. Just imagine the chapters. University students (undergrads vs graduate students). Department store clerks (Robinsons vs Central). Fitness club sales staff (California WOW vs Fitness First). Insurance sellers (AIA, BUPA etc). Hotel cocktail bar hostesses (especially Conrad, Westin Sukhumvhit, Sheraton). Tour leaders (lots of private companies with talented staff). I think the best one has to be drug company representatives (tua tan borisat ya); very intelligent, educated and attractive ladies in that business. That sounds like a really fun project!
July 18th, 2010 at 9:27 pm
Sounds like you have a lot of ideas. I think you should write the book.